DEATH PENALTY: IS IT BIBLICAL?

[saltcitybaptist]

Does the New Testament allow for the death penalty?
Does the New Testament demand the death penalty?

[Uth_Guy]

Some of you exegetical giants may want to help out here. Don't flame me too much. BTW, I like mine extra-crispy!! ;D

The Old Testament seems to be pro capitol punishment while the New testament seems to talk more about love and forgiveness. Are these two different in the approach. I don't think they are. Here are some points:

Deuteronomy 5:17 (Middle of the 10 Commandments) Some translations state "You shall not murder." While older translations like the King James uses the word "kill," it still has the same meaning: Putting to death someone or thing for the pleasure of doing so or out of hatred for the object of our anger. IE A murderer kills for the pleasure to taking a human life. We do not consider killing a cow for meat to be murder yet it is taking the cows life. We kill the cow (or pig or sheep, or fish) so others may continue living.
This passage was a direct dictation from God to Moses. God values the life of his creation and commands us not to take someone's life as a result of our sinful nature.

2. Numbers 35: 16-21 This passage talks about when someone takes the life of another because of hatred or what is called malice. Those people are commanded to be put to death because they have no regard for the sanctity of life. They do not care so they kill for their pleasure or profit. These people have plotted and planned the taking of the life. They show no remorse or concern over the death of another. The Bible says they are to be put to death.
In verses 22-25 of that chapter, the Bible deals with the accidental taking of a life. For example: Two guys are working on a roof of a house. One begins to slip and grabs out for the other guy to help stop his fall. The second guy is knocked from the roof and dies as a result of the fall. Should the first guy who tried to stop his own falling be punished for his friend's death? Of course not, it was an accident. Even those someone died, there was not intent or action out of anger that killed him.
The passage you gave in Exodus 21:12 is similar to that of the Numbers passage. The law was being established to protect the innocent. Death was the punishment for intentionally kills another. The Old Testament laws were much stricter than today's law in this country. Many still hold to such laws throughout the Middle East even today.

3) In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul talks about our relationship to the governments and their laws. In Romans 13: 1-5, Paul says that governments are in place because God allows them to be there for a time. We, as citizens of a country, are to obey the rules and laws set up by that government. IF you disobey they law, verse four says that we are to be afraid of them because they "...for he (the government) does not bear the sword for nothing." We are to submit to the governments and the authorities for two reasons:
A) Christian conscience; we know better than to do wrong,
B) punishment handed out by the powers that exist.

4)In all of the Gospels, Jesus never addresses this issue of the death penalty even thought he saw it's results all of his life. He never condemned the Roman government for the use of crucifixion as a means to punish serious offenders of the law. He would have had many opportunities to object had he wanted to. However, part of the reasoning behind his silence is that Jesus was not here to teach us about secular law, but rather the laws of God and how He desires to know us. This is why we have the teachings of love opposed to hate, kindness rather than anger being focused on by Jesus.
5) The Luke 19 passage is at the end of a parable talking about justice that was known at that time;the consolidation of one's power as king. The essence is that justice is permanent and cannot be undone or changed by those who work against the will of the king. With the parable, Jesus was teaching that those that opposed the ways of God will be punished eternally for their sin of rebellion.

Overall, the New Testament does not provide a *detailed* right or wrong teaching on the death penalty. The best passage is the Romans 13 one. To say the Bible condemns the death penalty is to argue from silence. That is to say something from a position of what is not said about the topic. The individual believer needs to be convinced of their position and stand by it unless corrected by the Holy Spirit.

OK, let the flames burn hot!!! ;D

P.S. Can you tell I am an ex-police officer?!

[Uth_Guy]

I know there has to be more opinions about this topic out there. Come on, voice those thoughts!

[ABC_Ron]

I'd have to agree with you. Killiing is not murder. There are lawful ways to kill and not murder. There are no lawful ways to murder. Those who are against the use of the penalty try to confuse the two. I believe executing people who murder is appropriate.
As a Deputy Sheriff I guarded many people on trial for murder and facing the death penalty. Once I was instrumental in leading a child molester who murdered his victims after raping them, to the Lord in a cell block. Months after receiving Christ he was sentenced to death. While on death row He wrote and asked me what to make of all this. I told him his sins were forgiven but his crimes were not. His penalty for salvation was paid for by a sinless man who took his place. However, He would have to pay the State of California for the crimes he committed and was justly convicted and sentanced for. There was no conflict. He should be at peace about the situation. That was about 20 years ago. He is still on death row awaiting his exicution willingly.

[Uth_Guy]

Hey Saltcitybaptist! Any thoughts on your topic? You started the question but I haven't heard for ya on your thoughts! ;D

Anyone else have thoughts? We're all waiting to hear from ya!

[saltcitybaptist]

Ask and thou shalt receive!
My orginial question asked if the New Test provided for the death penalty. I do not believe the NT specificaly teaches in favor of it, nor does it teach against it. However, I do believe in the death penalty. Rom 13:1 instructs us to be subject to the goverment. There is a price to pay for a crime. Certain crimes such as murder do deserve the death penalty. Mind you all killing is not necessarly murder, ie an accident, self defense, ect. Each case should be taken on its merit. However, a person should not be tried, convicted and sencened in a very short time. On the other hand, some one should not be on death row for 30 years either.
Another point to consider is the defense of race. Some say that individuals of a certain race are over- represented on death row. Using this logic then no more than 50% of all those executed should be male. Bottom line is: You murder (first degree) someone then the death penalty should be handed down.
Some say the goverment should have respect for life. Well, I do; and thats why I believe in the death penalty. Finally, the death penalty is not revenge, it is a punshiment.

[Uth_Guy]

Well, now that we've solved that one, what's next? ;D Really though, the Romans 13 passage can be a touchie one at times. We are to submit to the government but tell that to people like Dietrich Bonhoeffer and others of the past. Does require you to think more dynamically, doesn't it? That may be another topic for discussion. ;D

[saltcitybaptist]

How bout a silly comeback. We are on our way to peach at church. For whatever reason, we are running late, so we exceed the speed limit by say only 25 mph. We are stopped by the police. Our defense is that we are preachers and are working for God, therefore we are not subject to mans laws while serving God.
Bottom line is where do we draw the line!! ;D
How about this one - for real. While stationed in the Army over in Germany, one of our church members were arrested for passing out Bible tracts in front of the PX (retail store) on post. Did the Army exceed its authority, should we be requred to obey that regulation?

[Uth_Guy]

I, as hopefully all here, realize that a personal choice to violate the laws established for our safety is not acceptable by God or man. (Speaking about your speeding issue!) If not an emergency, the preacher in question should say "yes sir" and humbly take the tag. You run the risk of a taicket even it is an emergency. Our actions can cause a great deal of problems for others when we resort to that logic. It hurts our witness as well!

Case in point: While serving in East Asia, many missionaries I worked with would speed on the nation's highway system. When they were pulled over, they would fake not knowing how to speak the language to frustrate the officer. The object would be to have the officer so frustrated dealing with a non-native speaker that they would let them go. I found that practice outragous and highly un-Christian. I was even encouraged to follow that practice. I didn't. But I also never put myself in that position! ;D

[Shiloh]

Thirty days with an evangelist and then send them to wherever they choose to go.

[saltcitybaptist]

Shilo, welcome back.
Now can you please translate your reponse?

[Shiloh]

I'm for capital punishment. Romans 13:4 pretty clearly shows that the Govt has the right to execute and Paul also says that the Govt is to handle evil doers in other places. OT is replete with the concept.

My Jewish evangelist friend would tell you that they had no jails in OT Israel. You either repaid the crime by returning the property fourfold or lost an eye or your life. I think this is the concept the forefather of the US had in mind when they said that trials should be speedy.

It appears that incarceration is a Gentile concept. Doesn't work well so maybe we should go back to the theocratic Jewish practice. Better for society in the long run and no huge budgets and overcrowded prisons. Three strikes you're out in their economy would have been out of this world period.

[Shiloh]

3162 machaira (makh'-ahee-rah);
probably feminine of a presumed derivative of 3163; a knife, i.e. dirk; figuratively, war, judicial punishment:
KJV-- sword.

Since the context is not war but punishment of evil doers it should be obvious that capital punishment is the concept since it was freely practiced when Paul was writing.