SBT vs BGCT in Texas

[Lonnie Odom]

For all my fellow Texas pastors ----

What is your viewpoint on the Southern Baptists of Texas vs Baptist General Convention of Texas

The longer it goes the more I lean to the SBT, but really wish it would just all stop and everyone would get back to doing God's work!

[Shiloh]

Lonnie, you are opening a can of worms here.

The church I interviewed with Wed night is a BGCT church only because it was started by them and their loan says if they switch the loan is called in.  The people are far more conservative on the whole than the BGCT and I would guess that they do not know the difference between the two.

I am affiliated with the SBTC in that they have my resume and I get their magazine.   If this church calls me, which I doubt, I would work to get the loan paid off or moved to another source so I can take the people into where they fit instead of being stuck where they do not.

I am even more conservative than the SBT, but you have to work with what ya got.  

It is not going to go away because the issues are important and I expect the BGCT to finally split when they feel they have milked enough funds and have enough power over their churches to break off from the SBC completely.  I would predict a merger between them and the (Oh the adjectives that come to mind) CBF, whom I fervently pray the SBC will soon cut off like a gangerous limb and that is putting it mildy.

This would have happened already except I fear that the rank and file have no clue that there are issues or if they do have no clue how to defend their position and initiate appropriate action.  We are great at salvation, but after that much is lacking in doctrinal understanding.

It is time to separate ourselves from those who hold to unorthodox or non-historical Baptist and especially Biblical doctrines.  We have girl thingy-footed with sin long enough and if the SBC is to survive and not become apostate like many of the other mainline denominations we need to return to Bethel and purify the ranks. We once conquered Jerichos and now we have nothing but Ai experiences with churches whose bones are very dry. Revival or death are our only choices.

Please note that I am blasting organizations and not individuals.  I know that within any organization there are good and bad.  If you are a good guy come out.  If you are a bad guy, get out.

Yes, I am feeling feisty today, I reckon.

God bless Texas!

[Sue]

Could you please define what you meant by the term
"girl-thingy"...

[Lonnie Odom]

Yea Shiloh, I want to hear you explanation to Sue  

[Shiloh]

First of all, I love your icon, Lonnie!!!

I had to scratch my head on that one myself.  I am a victim of the built in censor on this thing.  I had looked at that a few days when I was checking out what we could do with the board, but did not commit it to memory.  It never clicked that a well known phrase could be linked to a vulgar expression. Maybe if I had hyphenated it the link might not have been made.  I am not even sure if it proper to explain what happened since we may have minors reading the board.  Hmm, let's see how can I do this?  OK, the system will change a slang word for a male body part into "man thingy."  It turned part of my phrase which was perfectly legitimate into "girl thingy"  because that part can also be used as a slang term for a female body part.  I may have to find a synonym for that phrase if I want to use it again on this board.  I have never had that happen to me before.  

[Sue]

Shiloh,  It is my turn to say "oops".  
I see now what you meant.  After the pounding the women took from the old board,  I guess sometimes I am just over-sensitive when it comes to the Baptist/female attitude of some men in the SBC and I thought you were making a slur against women.  Again, I am sorry I jumped to the wrong conclusion.  We have a "curse buster" on our tv and I know how the editing of words can get strange sometimes.  

[Shiloh]

It's OK, I didn't feel jumped on, just perplexed as to what in the world I was saying.  I was afraid I had really lost it somehow since it did not make any sense to me either and I wrote it!!!  
As to the woman thing, I am about to send a thank you card for the opportunity to interview to the church where I ran the gauntlet Wednesday.  It was supposed to last an hour and went over two.  They had 20 questions prepared and I gave the right and great answers to 19 of them.  Some were amazed at my "abilties" and my "credentials."   The 20th was the death blow and that dealt with the role of women in the church.  As I would rather be right than President or pastor I gave them my position. Since there is a Lesbian on the committee and a 74 yr old woman that is still bitter about her Daddy running off when she was a child we had some real moments of intense fellowship.  The Lesbian has not outted herself, but almost everyone in the church knows she is because her and her partner are the obvious stereotype.  As one lady said, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

We have gone off the deep end in this area.  I have no desire to bash women, but the Book is still the Book and I am deeply convicted that if Christ Himself stood behind me with a thumbs up sign we would still bow to our culture in this and many other issues.  I had a long post on the other board about this.  I am less free to speak on this board than the other one though this BGCT vs. SBTC message did fire me up some as I have had to deal with this quite a lot.  I will try to refrain in the future.  

[boB]

would you say the issues dividing the LIB & CONS in TX are the same issues dividing those state convetnions in VA & MO?

[enoch]

I pastored a church in Texas which was aligned with the BGCT and indeed Richard Lamb came and addressed us.  
Many of the issues he mentioned were concerning the BGCT using funds which benefited ABC, Disney and other corporations which supported homosexuality and abortion as well as other issues antithetical to Christian values.
I consider myself conservative and sympathetic to the ideals of the SBT.  However there is an old maxim which says "Change must come from the inside."
I realize that the conservatives who finally pulled out felt that they had exhausted their patience with the liberals who reigned over the BGCT but what was accomplished is not pretty!
The SBT look like a bunch of spoiled angry children who have quit the game and run off with their marbles.
The moderates in the BGCT are somewhat in control, but without good conservative leadership and the ultra-liberals are forming their own group.  All which makes the SBC look the worse for wear.
And the devil and his crowd just sit back and laugh at the SBC and the Baptist Christians and hold us up to derision as incompetents.

;D :PIt's enough to make you want to join the Independant Baptists and reply to Shiloh's Independant Baptist forum!

[Shiloh]

There is also an old saying that false prophets come from within as well.  Luther tried to change the RC Institution and it nearly cost him his life and it did cost many others their lives who tried to be the change from within.  It did not work so they left the Institution and went independent. That is probably how many Independents felt about the SBC.  They saw no hope and left when the Liberals had control.  Now that there is a bit of a Conservative resurgence (though I would say the Conservatives are a tad more Liberal than they were 30 years ago) some Independents might be interested in rejoining the fight.  However, until the SBC practices a bit more "church discipline" and throws the blighters out they will be no better off than Luther in their own organization.  You cannot be efficent when there is constant infighting and trying to walk with those who are not in agreement.  Again, if the Liberals were at least honest they would leave.  Join the CBF who are cooperative with everyone but those who still hold to the principles of the Baptist faith.  They are becoming Baptist only in that they dunk, but would rather fellowship with Belial so cut the cords and turn them loose.  

[boB]

You ask why the Liberals dont leave the SBC, could it be they would be glad to leave if they could just take some things along, like a few colleges, agcy's ect.

[Shiloh]

They are working on that and they will achieve some success. Indeed, it is more about power than doctrine with them. However, the Conservatives should take the initiative and boot them before they do major damage.  

[calbapman]

S. Baptists---

Why do we worry and fight about all these denominational political issues? The BGCT vs. the SBT... etc. I am here to simply reveal one thing... The truth... God is thoroughly unimpressed when we as christians argue over politics! Let me remind you all that we are a diaspora. We are people of the faith in a lost and evil world that is dieing to death. We are called to live at peace with each other, and I am here to tell you that God does not care AT ALL about denominational politics! The sooner all of you get that, the better off all your churches will be, and the better off the SBC nationwide will be, and that's a fact like it or not!

~Concerned Pastor

[saltcitybaptist]

Maybe we are not talking about the same thing. Politics could mean that if we dont elect Uncle Jim as the Sunday school director for the 10th time agian, he will take his substantal thithe some place else. We may "discuss" weather young adults should be in the Youth group. (that was a problem for me years ago). We may be upset with the young music director and demand his dismassal beacuse he has scheduled too much CCM during Sunday morning service, when we would rather sing The old ruggred Cross and Standing on the Promises. Thats politics!!! ;D

There are some issues I will not compromise on: baptism by immersion; men only clergy;dening homosexuals, as well as hetrosexual shack ups from church membership; the diety of Christ; and ect.

If the Bible teaches it, we must obey. If the Bible does not demand it, than it is another story. But lets not just use the word "politics" just for the sake of numbers. The bottom line is for power.

[revb]

First of all, RIGHT ON, calbapman!!!! I agree ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!!! Second, regarding those things which saltcitybaptist listed in reply to calbapman - those are INTERPRETATIONS OF DOCTRINE and PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF TRUTH, NOT, I REPEAT NOT, " POLITICS". "Politics" is the "I'm RIGHT, you're WRONG" mind-set so eloquently exemplified by your list of "doctrinal truths" in the first paragraph. I agree - if the BIble says it, we need to obey. The problem is, lots of people say the Bible says things IT DOESN'T SAY, but because their seminary/DOM/mentor/whatever said so, then THEY believe it without ever bothering to check it out in the WORD to see if GOD SAID IT???!!! I am sick to death of CONS vs LIB.
Scriptural Truth is not about C vs L, BGCT vs. SBT - it's about JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH, PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please forgive me if I have offended, but I AM OFFENDED by people who cannot see the forest from the trees, who insist on making POLITICS more important than JESUS - and if you are actively engaged in the argument between the two sides, then you are guilty. Let's let the PHARISEES, who are perishing in their lack of faith and much deeds and works already, sort it out to their liking and let'sjust all of us PREACH JESUS, CRUCIFIED AND RISEN FROM THE DEAD, ASCENDED TO THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER IN GLORY - THIS is what's important, not the politics of C. vs.L.